Showing posts with label Cynthia Ward. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Cynthia Ward. Show all posts

Tuesday, October 26, 2021

Gothic Traditions and the Contemporary Genre Writer


Hey, writers! Let's talk about the Gothic traditions. Big, old houses. Creepy relatives. Family secrets that still affect the present... If the success of shows like The Haunting of Bly House and Midnight Mass show us anything, they show us that these tropes are still with us and aren't just limited to old-timey stories. 

What's your history with Gothic stories? Are you a fan, or did you come to them by seeing the stories they influenced in novels and on TV? 

Marian Allen: A friend introduced me to Gothic romances in college: The kind with a heroine in a long dress or a nightgown running in the light of a full moon from a mansion, looking over her shoulder in apprehension. The cover didn't always match the book's contents; they were (the ones my friend passed to me) much more interesting than that. Then there was Jane Eyre, Wuthering Heights, parts of Frankenstein, parts of Vanity Fair, and other classics influenced by the Gothic tradition. Oh --Rebecca

John L. Taylor: I grew up both reading books like The House of Seven Gables and watching old horror films from Universal and Hammer. These are heavily Gothic in their visuals. Also, German expressionist films like The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari gave me a solid visual influence rooted in Gothic, if distorted imagery. 

Cynthia Ward: I enjoy Gothic fiction in its various iterations, and I've written a gothic horror story (whether or not it's supernatural is left to the reader).

Shannon Murphy: I love old Gothic horror stories! The chilling atmosphere, the spooky plot twists.

Ef Deal: I live in a Gothic house. We were haunted for a few years, and we have had a few things visit us. I grew up with ghosts in my bedroom. Naturally, I gravitated toward Gothic stories. 

Sean Taylor: My first exposure in novels was Dickensian rather than pure Gothic, but from Charles' dusty old mansions it was an easy leap to the worlds of dark romances like Wuthering Heights and The House of the Seven Gables and creepy settings of early horror like Dracula and Frankenstein. My movie and TV habits at the time only reinforced the visuals of a Gothic style and the storytelling motifs of family secrets and isolation from the surrounding villages and towns, thanks to Dark Shadows, Hammer's horror movies, and, of course, Elvira introducing me to lots of Gothic revival B-movies I had been too young to see when they originally hit theaters.  

In what ways have the tropes of Gothic fiction influenced your work? 

Lucy Blue: My latest book, The Devil Makes Three, is a Southern Gothic horror novel -- NOT a romance, though as with most gothic stories, there is a relationship at the center of it. It takes place at Briarwood Plantation, which was deserted in 1837 when the English fiancee of the owner's daughter axe-murdered the entire family. When my book begins in the present day, Briarwood has just been purchased by a bestselling horror novelist, Jacob McGinnas. He's been suffering from writer's block, like you do, and he intends to open it back up to write his masterpiece about the murders and the hauntings they have allegedly inspired. A widowed local librarian, Serena Decatur, is helping him with his research, and together they find out the grisly murders are just the tip of a very nasty iceburg. Briarwood, both the house and grounds (a wilderness that hasn't been touched in almost 200 years), and Saxonville, the small town nearby, are pretty well soaked through with evil that's both human and supernatural. So we've got a grand but ruined haunted house and a whole bunch of creepy family secrets--Serena, a Black woman, discovers she has connections to Briarwood far beyond academic interest. And every horror in the present is rooted somehow in the past. Pretty much everything I've ever written has had some kind of gothic element. I mean, my medieval romances have stuff like vampires and haunted oubliettes, and my westerns have zombies. But The Devil Makes Three is me going full-on Gothic horror.

Ef Deal: Then I read Rebecca and thought WOW, THIS is what real Gothic is. I want to do this! Scary, romantic, a buried secret, a grisly murder, a mystery... And I have tried include them all.

John L. Taylor: It influences my work mainly in the form of descriptions and imagery, but also in the form of having female leads who are often confronted by the supernatural. Also, motifs like family secrets in far-flung locations, old mansions, etc. are a theme I'm toying with in an upcoming short story, though mixed with more cosmic horror tropes. 

Marian Allen: My period (1968) suspense, A Dead Guy at the Summerhouse is basically the opposite of those romances I read in college: The protagonist is a young man, and he tries his damnedest to NOT find out anything about the creepy relatives and their haunting past. Nope, just wants a paycheck, thanks.

Cynthia Ward: If anyone's interested, my story, "The Midwife," is available to read for free at https://www.nightmare-magazine.com/fiction/the-midwife/

Sean Taylor: As a pulp, horror, and mystery writer, the idea of family secrets and the past influencing the present negatively are strong elements in my work, even though I rarely set any of my stories in a Gothic mansion. For my superhero fiction back during the days of Cyber Age Adventures, not so much influence at all though. 

How do you see them changing in light of a far more digital world, and do you believe these historically important parts of stories will continue to stick around for new and upcoming writers?

John L. Taylor: I can see these tropes being continued in the digital publishing era, The Gothic story just resonates so well with audiences it is unlikely to fade away yet. Things like gender roles or locations may change, but that visual style will always be reinvented in some form. For a few years now, the Gothic aesthetic has been reduced to a caricature, a cartoon trope. But I believe it's set for a resurgence like the one it had in the early 1990s under Burton and Sonnenfeld's influence.

Sean Taylor: I think the setting that originally defined Gothic traditions will become less and less used,  particularly in contemporary mainstream fiction, but never truly go away. Building on what John said, movies tend to re-visit that at least once during each new generation of filmmakers. I do think that the concepts and themes of Gothic works will continue to inspire stories for years and years to come. We see bits of it in nearly all the works of Neil Gaiman, Stephen King, and even in non-horror works such as Jane Smiley's A Thousand Acres and even several works by Joyce Carol Oates Horror will always have a place for it, and dark romance as well. But I also feel sure that literary writers too will continue to look for ways to either subvert the tropes or play off them for new effect or to use them as a sort of storytelling shorthand when needed. 

Shannon Murphy: I wrote a Gothic story about a werewolf. I let my Beta reader read it, and he said I should scrap it, that such stories are "out of date." It made me sad, but I think he might be right

Marian Allen: I see no reason for the old tropes to vanish, no matter how the stories are told. There are still foreboding houses of whatever age or size, still family secrets, still creepy relatives. Anything that works will always be with us.

Cynthia Ward: What they might be like in the future, I don't know. Tamsyn Muir's Gideon the Ninth is a recent (and excellent) SF novel that very imaginatively shifts the tropes you mention into space and mixes in necromancers, lesbian swordswomen, and a locked-room mystery.

Tuesday, March 9, 2021

Questions from a Brave and Stupid Man to a Panel of Women Writers #3: Men (Mis)Writing Women

NOTE: This post features adult language.

Being a white man, I willingly acknowledge I have blind spots, things that while they don't register to me like they perhaps should are things well worth my time and thought and important for me to know and understand in order to a member of a community of diverse writers.

That said, I've assembled an all-female panel of writers to be my teachers.

This is #3 in a series of articles. The first can be found here, and the second here

Today's discussion is this: 

Are there things you find often when men write female leads that drive you crazy? What are they, and how can male writers fix those issues?

       

Emily Leverett

(Most) Women ALWAYS (always, I mean always, no matter what) take serious inventory of their current location--that is, where are the exits? Is this well lit? Are there people around? How fast do I need to walk somewhere, etc. In bars, on the street, anywhere. Women often refuse to stay in motels where the doors open to the outside. Also, as per the Men Write Women Twitter account, women's breasts do not have a mind, emotional set, or physical capacity to move of their own.

And I don't randomly think about my boobs AT ALL unless they are either hurting or as I am dressing and even then only in passing. I don't dwell upon my long soft hair as I twist it up and clip it.

I am thinking "Is today a two cups of coffee day or am I good with one?"

We do frequently have a laundry list of things in our head, planning out day, mental notes for errands, checklist of things done to leave house. (Of course the fewer responsibilities one has the shorter that list)

Women are just as likely as men to be logical and pragmatic, or emotional and impulsive.

Corrina Lawson

They don't write a specific personality. When some male writers create men, they create a specific person, yes? When they create a woman, they create the same type over and over. (See Greg Rucka, frex.) Women are as varied as men, they have all kinds of different interests, body types, and personalities.

Also, women approach a date/encounter with unknown men with the same wary attitude that men approach a possible fistfight. 

I wanted to add even when they write well-drawn and complicated women, men tend to make them also fuckable. Not every woman in your story needs to be fuckable. Put older women in. Make them interesting too.

Ellie Raine

I’ve noticed men writing “strong female characters” as if they have zero flaws and are just amazingly awesome at literally everything without any struggle whatsoever as if they’re robots...

Sometimes they even come off as male character personalities but in a skin that men want to see, so it’s still men writing for men.

Just as often, though, I also see men writing only about an OPPRESSED WOMAN archetype who doesn’t have any actual personality other than being oppressed and being angry about it 24/7 in their sleep, in the shower, on the toilet, in the car, in the morning, etc. Literally, it’s like some authors think they’re not even allowed to give those characters a favorite color or a favorite beverage, because someone must have told them they’re not allowed to write about women unless their entire being and existence is only relevant to how much they’re oppressed... like, for sure, we HAVE and STILL ARE oppressed on too many god damn levels, and while I get angry about that bs a lot when it comes up, I’m still a damn human who thinks and does other things ASIDE from that.

Our purpose in life is not BEING OPPRESSED. Our personalities are not BEING OPPRESSED. Our goals are not BEING OPPRESSED.

Oppression is a viable and accurate OBSTACLE. I personally don’t want it to define who I am as a human being. I decide for myself who I am, as should all characters regardless of gender, sexuality, race, and belief. They. Are. PEOPLE.

        

Ruth de Jauregui

Women are complicated. 

A tough woman working in a man's world can also be caring and sensitive, but she might keep it out of sight of the world. Give us those little moments where we can see that she cares, that a memory is painful. Oh, and we have aches and pains -- it's not all sweetness and light...

Oh, and real women don't have breasts shaped like melons -- especially after kids. Hips spread, knees and back hurt, no more high heels.

Anna Rose

Women being one-note characters constantly in need of “saving”.

Fuck that shit.

My characters of all genders tend far more to fighting back than being passive.

Cynthia Ward

Women should have agency (so avoid female characters who are absolutely, utterly, totally helpless in body, mind, spirit, and imagination. As you would with male characters).

Skip making them damsels in distress. This doesn't mean they cannot need or receive help from a man (or a woman, or a group). What it means is that helplessness and victimhood are not their story function, any more than they are a male character's story function.

(It may be worth noting that Edgar Rice Burroughs, who died in 1950, rarely created females who were damsels in distress. Arguably, he didn't at all, because Jane gained a lot of competence and independence in later books.)

Don't have the women be there for the male lead, or for male characters in general. This is rather subtle and difficult to root out, I suspect. But it's a big part of the reason why I've joked that most fiction is fan-service for men. In the Travis McGee books I've read, excellent as they are, this is definitely the role of women. However much I like them, the women are there to have sex with McGee, comfort him, give him an excuse to demonstrate competence in and/or out of bed, etc.

Along these lines, do you only have one female character in the story or novel? It can make sense in some cases (she's the only character or there are only two characters, or you are recognizing multiple genders in a small cast). But it can often be avoided.

Remember not all women and girls are cisgender.

As a cis woman, I'll note that I don't pay nearly as much attention to my breasts, genitals, or (when I had them) periods as some male writers think.

Cis women also tend not to think about penii nearly as much as many cis men think.

       

Lucy Blue

I’m also very very tired of female characters who prove their worth as action heroes by hating all things stereotypically feminine, whether it’s dating men or nail polish. If I have to read how one more female protagonist has no time to wear makeup or doesn’t realize how beautiful she is or never bothers with a bra for her perky double D boobs (pro tip—double D boobs can be many things but perky ain’t one of them without the assistance of engineering), I’m going to vomit. And why can’t she be susceptible to flirting or romantic commitment without being perceived as weak or silly?

Nikki Nelson-Hicks

Off the top of my head, the thing that always makes me most angry is when a female character is merely there to prop up the male character. She's there to be pretty, to make him feel better, to show him the meaning of life. The Manic Pixie Dream Girl trope is the first thing that comes to mind. (The Bechdel Test also comes to mind. I often use it when I'm watching a movie. BTW, Hamilton completely fails the Bechdel test.) I mean, look at the first Star Wars movie, New Hope. We're supposed to feel so sorry for Luke losing Ben Kenobi, a man he's known for a few days, when Leia has not only endured torture by Empire needle bots, she's lost her entire planet! And who gets comforted? Yeah. That's pretty messed up. If you want to make a character interesting, worry about their humanity. Their goals. Their ambitions. My genitalia has very little to do with my ambitions or personal goals. I like a character that could be gender swapped and not a bit of the character's motivations be lost.

Alexandra Christian

Men often have a tendency to be obsessed with describing women strictly in terms of their physical appearance. I proofed a book where the guy referenced a woman's "shapely legs" 4 times on one page. There also seem to be two kinds of women: sex pots that every man on Earth wants to sleep with or a heinously unattractive bitch.

    

Krystal Rollins

Women writers treat their manuscript like their best friend. She can put it down for a while, come right back to it, and pick up her conversation just where she left off.

Sarah Lucy Beach

I was recently editing something and the female main character was described in one sentence as a "big chunk of a woman." I thought "chunk" a bit heavy handed, but it could mean tall, strong, Junoesque. But then a couple of sentences later, she is also described as "beautiful and sexy," with no other description to it. The other character in the scene is an older woman, a counselor. So the "beautiful and sexy" was totally irrelevant. Sexy to whom? How? Why does it matter if she's sexy or not, especially in such a scene.

Just calling a woman "sexy" doesn't make her so. It's laziness on the part of the male writer. Dude, if you cannot describe why she's turning you on, just drop it. She ain't sexy. But if it's the way her lips turn up, or the long slender column of her neck, or her graceful hands fluttering about, lightly caressing the surface of the table.... Anyway, SHOW us in her behavior (movement, voice, that sort of thing) what makes her attractive, don't just flat out TELL the reader, because that is FLAT.

Mandi M. Lynch

If you want a good female character, think about what makes a good male character. When we hear about male characters we hear about professional accomplishments, we hear about what they do and who they are, we don't hear about sexy rugged shoulders and the bulge in their pants. When a male character achieve something it isn't because he's blond and skinny and pretty with an upturned nose, it's because of how he got there. We don't hear about how their clothes pulled tight in certain spots. And we don't hear about them and association with other people unless there is an important reason for that.

Also, in general I am tired of hearing about strong assertive females being b***** or ugly or sturdy or whatever stupid word you have for the day. There's a strong woman in power somewhere, and she's either a nice princess or screwed her way to the top, or we get a woman that basically is manly and just can't accept her position in life. And that's not how it really is.

 

Susan H. Roddey

My biggest hang-up is when more stock is put on the woman's physical appearance than her abilities. I don't like seeing women treated as hypersexualized eye-candy. She needs to have better motivation than some dude's ass-kicking warrior chick fantasy.

I completely understand that if a male character is seeing the woman for the first time then yeah, he'll likely take stock of her physical appearance and that's fine. Just don't overdo it. Let him appreciate what he sees and move on before it becomes comical and offensive. We don't need to know exactly how the fabric of her dress hangs off her hips or what the outline of her nipples looks like through her top.

Amanda Niehaus-Hard

All of the above and be aware too that women are angry and we live with that anger 24/7.

Women have certain societal expectations put on them to be the care-takers or "mothers." Women are expected to be the peace-makers. Women are expected to respond passively to the violence in the world and in their communities. This weighs on you and affects you from childhood into adulthood. And it's infuriating.

Be aware that your character has a back story of fury over these expectations, over being dismissed, ignored, mansplained, not believed, etc. Be aware that her back story also includes anxiety over being raised to believe she was "asking for" any violence done to her by wearing the wrong clothes or not being vigilant enough in a parking garage. Be aware that she has been sexualized since she was a child, and that her current "worth" in society is based on how closely she still resembles a teenager -- so her confidence in her own sexuality and her own self-worth is constantly under attack by her anxieties.

Be aware that we are intimately acquainted with microaggressions because we've been told since preschool that we need to shrug them off.

Be aware that sometimes our own religious faith fails us, neglecting to protect us or failing to give us support in times of crisis.

Be aware of our history in our culture. We know what year we were finally allowed to have bank accounts without a husband co-owning the account. Do you?

Be aware that we can't ask for help without being called weak, or having that request used against us, as a symptom of our "hysteria."

No matter what your position on birth control, sterilization, or abortion, be aware that we STILL don't have agency over our own health and our own contraception -- and what little control we have is constantly under threat.

My point is not that men don't live with anger or unrealistic societal expectations. Of course they do. But you're aware of yours. Be aware of ours.

Want to write a woman as a villain? She doesn't need to have been raped. She doesn't need to have had her child murdered. She doesn't need to have Stockholm Syndrome. She really just needs to be a woman.

Jen Mulvihill

Oh, my, where to begin, there are so many but let's just talk about the simplest one. Woman do not always sit around and gossip about each other or ogle good looking guys and make sexist remarks about them. We actually do have intelligent and in depth conversations about life, the universe, and everything. I would recommend that you sit and listen to women's conversations before assuming what we talk about and what we care about. Also, also, not all women/girls run screaming when they see something scary or are attacked. Personally my first instinct is to find a weapon, and always double tap, don't hit them once and think they are out cold or dead. A smart woman always makes sure. I find it inspiring to talk to people and ask questions about their gender or even their race or religion. Most people are not offended by this because they rather see a writer get it right then get upset about it being wrong. I think readers appreciate it when you take the time to do proper research especially when it comes to characters written by the opposite sex.